#106 Black Palestinan Solidarity === Maurizio Benazzo: Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, wherever you are in the world. Welcome. It's a joy to see so many familiar faces again. My name is Maurizio Benazzo. Zaya Benazzo: My name is Zaya, and we're speaking today from the territory of coastal Miwok and southern Pomo people, also known as Sebastopol, California. Today, we're delighted to present Black Maurizio Benazzo: Palestinian Solidarity, resisting racism, colonialism, and apartheid. And we have with us Faith that she will be hosting the panel, so I'm going to read a brief introduction of Faith. And then from there, you will take it on and guide us into this journey. Zaya Benazzo: Welcome. for being with us. Maurizio Benazzo: Thank you. Let me read the Faith. Faith Gay is an activist and master student at Princeton University with a background in anti war organizing and congressional advocacy. Her work focuses on democratizing United States foreign policy. She's a member of Black for Palestine, a collective organizing Black people in the U. S. to leverage their political, economic, and cultural power in support of Palestinian liberation and to end the U. S. complicity in Israeli apartheid. Thank you, Faith, for being here and for who you are and what you do. Thank you. Faith Gay: Thank you so much, Zaya and Maurizio. I'm happy to be here. Thank you everyone for joining and I'm looking forward to us having a really lovely discussion and I'm hoping everyone can come away learning something, reflecting on something, inspired to do something after a discussion. I'm really excited to be joined by Reverend Naomi and Imam Adeyinka two people that just getting to know them through this panel and their stories I'm really inspired by the work that they do. So I am going to share a bit about myself and then I'm going to allow our panelists to speak about themselves and about what brings them to this space. And to this topic about Black Palestinian solidarity personally as our wonderful sand host mentioned, I am a member of Black for Palestine, a group that works to mobilize Black people, particularly in the U S around the liberation of Palestine and particularly influencing U S policy towards Palestine. But I came to that group in a really long journey. I am originally from Los Angeles, California. I grew up, I am a preacher's kid. I grew up in a church, a large Black church in Los Angeles, and grew up in a church that did holy land tours to Israel every year for a really long time. And I think still does them to a certain degree. And so grew up really wanting to go to Jerusalem someday and see like where Jesus walked in and those sorts of phrases. And then, and also, growing up in l. A. is home to one of the largest Jewish populations in the U. S., I think the second largest after New York, and particularly a population that has really close ties to Israel. And so I grew up with, friends and classmates with family in Israel, grew up with family friends who were donating to yeshivas in Israel. And so that was the environment I grew up in. And then as I got older, went to school. With studying, Black revolutionary leaders a bit more, became really fascinated with, in particular, the Black Panthers, which, had a big presence in California. Was really fascinated by their steadfast sort of commitment to the liberation of Palestine and other oppressed peoples. And we'll also say as a student of international relations was really fascinated by the rhetoric in Washington about Israel as this key U. S. ally. And this, Sort of only democracy in the Middle East. And so I ended up going to Jerusalem, studying there for a semester in college and then in Jordan and was really moved by the segregation and the apartheid I saw. And that sort of put me on this path towards wanting to work closer with Palestinians, wanting to influence you as policy against supporting apartheid. And it's shaped where we've ended up here today. And that's me. That's how we I got here. I am also I'm going to let our other panelists introduce themselves and then I'm also going to share a bit about Pastor Michael McBride who couldn't be here with us today because of pneumonia, but I'll pass to Reverend Naomi and let her talk about her own journey and what she does. Naomi Washington-Leapheart: Hi, everybody. Thank you so much, Faith, and thank you, everyone, for being here. I'm really delighted. I'm a little under the weather, so I'm moving slowly, but I'm delighted to be here. I am based in Philadelphia, Lenape land, and about 10 years ago in 2014, I was in seminary. I was in graduate school preparing for a ministry that in and of itself was a surprise to me. I didn't I grew up in the historically Black church and was very active in my church, saw myself as a kind of professional church member but didn't see myself in religious leadership. didn't see myself as a clergy person. But you know what? Everybody else did. My nickname in college was reverend. There were all these signs apparently that were pointing to spiritual accompaniment as I like to think of ministry. But it took me a while to get that memo. In 2014, I was in my second year of seminary. At Lancaster Theological Seminary, and one of the things that we did in the second year of the Master of Divinity program was participate in a cross cultural experience. That is, we were supposed to experience the Christian church in another context, in another geographic context. And the year that was my cross cultural experience was the year that we went to Israel Palestine. I didn't know that I grew up a Christian Zionist. We didn't have that. We didn't use those terms, but I, my experience is similar to faiths and that my childhood church sent people to the Holy land year over year. So that we could walk where Jesus walked at. These were very deep politicized conversations. We didn't think of the, of the political context of Palestine. We didn't think of ourselves as being in solidarity with Palestine. And so all I knew going into this cross cultural experience was what I grew up with, which was come and tour the land where Jesus walked. But I'm fortunate that Before we actually went to Palestine in 2014, January of 2014, we had a whole semester of study about Palestinian resistance, about Israeli apartheid, and about the obligation that Christian communities in particular have to interrupt and eventually defeat the outsized role that Christian Zionism has played in Palestine. Determining U. S. Foreign policy related to Palestine and in general, determining U. S. Attitudes toward Israel in general. So I felt prepared intellectually for what I was going to witness, but nothing could have prepared me for what I would psychically and emotionally and experience. And spiritually experienced, existentially experienced being in Palestine for about three weeks in January of 2014. I recognized what I saw. I know segregation when I see it. I know, colorism and race based oppression when I see it. I know when religion is used as a pretext for evil. Deeds. And at this point, we got to call, we got to call a thing. This is evil. And that was my introduction to the Palestinian liberation movement. And since then, I have been involved most recently in the national leadership of a group called Christians for a Free Palestine. We are trying to defeat Christian Zionism. We're trying to organize Christians in particular to understand the toxicity of Christian Zionism and then work to redeem really Christianity by fighting against policies that are grounded in Christian Zionism. So I'm just happy to be here today and I'm excited for this conversation. Thank you so much. Faith Gay: Thank you, Reverend Naomi. So inspiring, and I really do hope you feel better. It seems we have a panel of people who are feeling a bit under the weather, but I know it's because y'all are working hard, and I hope you get some rest after this. Imam Adeyinka, would you like to introduce yourself? Adeyinka Mendes: My greetings of peace, everyone. As salamu alaykum. Peace be unto you. And I do hope you feel better. My prayers for you, Reverend Naomi and Pastor Mike. We, even though he's not physically with us his spirit. And his intention are absolutely present. I'm very thankful to be with you today. I am currently coming to you from the house of a Palestinian American family that are friends of mine, which is really meaningful to me. It wasn't planned this way but God has his own plan. The Creator has his own plan. As its own plan, and I'm coming to you from the ancestral lands of the Potawatomi Nation, and I think it's important that these indigenous tribal acknowledgements and land acknowledgements Are made. So I thank Reverend Naomi for doing that, especially in light of speaking about the occupation of Palestine. They're even more meaningful today. We must connect the dots. I am very privileged, I think, because as a 16 year old going to high school in Houston, Texas, I applied thanks to the encouragement of a friend of mine. Who attended this program a year before me, the Mickey Leland kibbutz internship program. And if you know a little bit about politics in the 90s, 80s and 90s, Mickey Leland was a congressman of the 19th congressional district of Houston. He had visited. The state of Israel and particularly the Hibbutzim, these socialist communes, these experiments that were very instrumental in the occupation of Palestine. And, but, he had a very powerful, very positive experience, and he wanted American high school students to have some share of that. And so he started this internship in partnership with the American Jewish committee that would take 12 high school students to Palestine for six weeks. And I was I applied for the program, I was accepted, and so it was the summer of 1992, after my junior year, I was landed in Tel Aviv, and over six weeks, we were in Haifa, we were in Be'er Sheva, in the Negev Desert, in Domona, and, of course, old and new Jerusalem, and I went there very much like faith and Reverend Naomi. I was not born or raised in a Muslim family. I was raised in a Baptist, Southern, Black Baptist church. Partly when I was in Nigeria, I went to a Nigerian Baptist church from the ages of six to 13. And when I went back to the United States with my parents I was really entrenched in, in, Black Christianity and the holy land, had, has this place in our consciousness. And so I was going there not to learn about socialism , but to reconnect and to strengthen my Christian ties, my Christian roots and Reverend Naomi. It was very clear to me that the inequities. The inequalities, the injustice, the discrimination that I witnessed that was not really talked about. We had a very curated trip, we spent most of our time in, in, in with Jewish families, but we also stay with Arab families. We lived on the kibbutz for about two to three weeks, but we also had sessions with the PLO, with PLO members, the Palestinian Liberation Organization. So we were introduced. Two different perspectives, but it opened my eyes. And when I came back as a very naive 16 year old was asked to share my experience with the people who helped pay in part for my journey, I said, I think Israel is somewhat racist and to the American Jewish committee. And it's as if all the air in the room, it was a sucked out and my poor mother, who was there as a guest she just smiled and asked me earlier asked me later did you think that was a wise thing to do? And I said, mom, I, I was just sharing with them. I had no agenda. I wasn't trying to make a point. I was just. As an African American, if it, if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. And so I saw that injustice. And that kind of began my engagement with the Palestinian struggle. And later on, after embracing Islam, a year later actually, I went to work at a summer camp organized by the YWCA for Palestinian orphans. For Who had lost fathers or uncles in the first Intifada. And so that was also eye opening because I saw the other side. This was in Jordan, Amman, Jordan. And then as an imam I've been very privileged because the most, most Palestinians are Muslim. There is a very significant Christian minority. There's a Jerusalem. Minority of as we all know but yeah, so I'm in conversation. I'm in relationship with Palestinians all the time because so many of them are in our community and we are constantly working and praying, but of course, the last eight months have been a departure from things as normal. So that's a little bit about me and my connection with this really important issue and I'm very happy that. Sand is spending time and resources and Zaya and Maurizio, I'm very thankful for the movie, the film that you made with so many important voices. So thank you for having me. Faith Gay: Thank you, Imam Adayinka. And yes I do want to take a moment and just acknowledge that, People in Gaza are still facing horrific, the most unimaginable conditions, and it's a privilege for us to be on here today and have internet and be able to host this event and to be able to go, to church or mosque or, prayers this weekend, and we're sending our best wishes to those people, and I hope that people can come away from this feeling very, feeling conviction about what we can do for Palestinian people in Gaza in particular, but also knowing that we're just keeping them in our prayers and in our hearts. I'm gonna read a bit about Pastor Michael McBride who couldn't be here with us today. I think we did have a chance to speak with him earlier this week, and I think he had a very similar experience of going to Palestine and being, again as, Imam Adi Inca put it, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, seeing that experience, but in his general life, Pastor Mike is the executive director of Live Free USA, which is an organization that are, or maybe more of a network a national organizing and social change network that works towards ending the criminalization of people of color. Reducing gun violence and transforming policing, the policing and criminal justice system. Excuse me. He was named by the Center for American Progress as a top clergy leader in 2013. And he served on President Barack Obama's Faith Based and Neighborhood Partnerships Council to address poverty and inequality. He is one of the national leaders in the movement to implement public health, Thank you. Gun violence prevention programs recent he was recently featured as one of CNN's champions of change He is the co founder of Black church pack, which is an organization or a group of folks working to influence we're electing people who work towards the betterment of Black people. And he's also a co founder of the Black Brown Peace Consortium. He serves as the lead pastor of the Way Church in Berkeley, California, and he's been a frequent contributor to the New York Times, the Washington Post, MSNBC, CNN, the Huffington Post, and many media outlets. Very accomplished man, hopefully resting and getting better. And I hope folks will follow his work even after this conversation. I wonder if you both can talk. A little bit specifically about what you were recognizing, what sort of experiences were you having that made you think, oh, this reminds me of segregation or oh, this reminds me of apartheid, um, and how you came away from that does either one of you want to kick it off? I'm happy to, or Reverend Naomi. Naomi Washington-Leapheart: I'm just trying to pick something. Pick a thing that, it, I was overwhelmed by the the connections, I was, the linkages between the colonial project that is the United States and the colonial project that is the state of Israel. Everything from surveillance to curtailing movement, it's very the Mechanics or the tools of authoritarianism of apartheid are, have been shared by empires around the world throughout time. If you can curtail the movement of people, you can restrict where they can go, what they can see, what they can do. You. You invalidate their histories and their stories, right? You simply deny their dignity. We had a very politicized trip in that we were firmly standing tall in our solidarity with Palestinian people, and I'm grateful for the agenda of our trip, because, again, I didn't know what to expect. But we did Spend some time with a settler at a settlement. And this man from Chicago, mind you. Was telling us, to go back to United States. This doesn't concern us. It was the the unapologetic denial wholesale denial of the humanity of The creative and intellectual production of a people. Textbook as far as I'm concerned that, and this doesn't even speak of the kinds of physical forms of violence that we saw. The fact that our tour bus got shot at when we were in Ramahllah. The fact that a soldier came onto the bus to just toy with us. There was no, it was, . It brought up for me kind of ancestral memory, like I don't have the actual memory of living through Jim Crow. I don't have the actual memory of my enslaved ancestors, but there's something that the trauma that has been generationally passed down was activated when I was in Palestine. Which is why I say I knew exactly what I was experiencing. There was a knowing in my body, regardless of my own lived experience, there was a knowing that this evil Has been exported, has migrated, has been fully leveraged in other parts of the world. I taught, we, talked to children in refugee camps who and, I think one of the the features of apartheid, of oppression of genocide is to , in some ways Parentify is not the word I want, but it's a denial of the, it's a denial that children are actually children. Like children were treated like they were adults. Children were brutalized like they were adults. I'm not suggesting that adults should be brutalized and either but there was a, there was this way that You know, and that has me thinking about the children in Birmingham, Alabama, or the children in Detroit, where I'm from originally who get characterized as older than they are, so that they can then be victimized as if they were adults. So there was just so much, there were so many dots I was connecting when I was there. It seemed terrifyingly familiar to me. Faith Gay: Absolutely, and I hope you were able to find some peace or, come away from that trip getting some help because it is a mind trip a bit pastor, excuse me, Imam Adyinka, did you want to respond to that or speak about your own experience? If not, that's all right. Adeyinka Mendes: Yeah, what Reverend Naomi said really rings true for me as well. And I, as I mentioned, I first visited Palestine when I was 16 years old, and then again when I was 17, and then since 2019, I visited every year, and I take groups of Muslims, 40, 80 people to the some of the holy sites, we go to Jerusalem, of course, primary to the Muslim quarter, because Even though our intention was to visit the Christian quarter, the Jewish quarter, the Armenian quarter, the presence, the military presence, the checkpoints the way that the IDF soldiers humiliate and intimidate again, brought up ancestral memories of how the law enforcement officials here in the United States did and Some still do the same exact thing. People who are supposed to protect and serve do the opposite. They they attack and they exploit. And so we also take groups to Khalil, known as Hebron. And it's been rightly said it's not an open prison. It's an open concentration camp. It's a place. When you go to inner city communities in the United States, Black communities in the United States, brown communities in the United States, and you see the intentional lack of investment in those communities. When I'm in Khalil, when I'm in Heblon, and I see that the shopkeepers are not allowed to sell their goods, where children are beaten in public for simply not following an order to walk. In the opposite direction. It brought up so many, very recent events like the death of Trayvon Martin and just boys and girls, who are, have had their childhoods taken away from them as a result of the apartheid system that has remnants in our country and is very present, clear and present in the state of Israel. When I was younger, it was mostly seeing the differences in the socio economic conditions. Going, walking through a Jewish neighborhood, it's very clean, trash is being picked up. The sewage system is working and then going walking through a Palestinian neighborhood and seeing dilapidated buildings and the trash on the streets and not witnessing the same amount of investment was something that was very telling to me. And then speaking to the Palestinian youth that were our hosts. Speaking to the Arab, uh, youth that were our hosts, whose families were our hosts. And they shared stories. And the Jewish youth as well, many of them were very progressive, very liberal and they were not ignorant of the double standards that their government, was was putting into practice, for the different communities. I think it's very difficult for someone who's either experienced Jim Crow, experienced segregation, experienced discrimination, microaggressions, racial, ethnic microaggressions, to miss that, when they visit when they visit Palestine. Faith Gay: Yeah, absolutely. And it's really amazing to know you're bringing people back to have witness to that experience. Adeyinka Mendes: Oh, yeah. Because, and why do I bring people back? Because the Palestinians that we visit when we're there, tell us to. They and this is a departure from the BDS movement, from the movements. To boycott divesting sanction who even many Muslims among them discourage people from visiting Israel, but the Palestinians themselves, the oppressed people request again and again, go back. They tell us without exception in my life. Go back and tell our brothers and sisters in America, we want them to come. We want them to come see this for themselves. Because once Christian Zionists, as Reverend Naomi mentioned, once American Muslims, once they become aware of what's happening, then policy will change. Policy will change once they become aware and take action. And then there are other more practical reasons. The shopkeepers in Palestinian neighborhoods don't get the same kind of support that their Jewish and Christian peers get from tourists. And so they, they want American Muslims to come to the Muslim quarter and support them economically. They are struggling, they are suffocating. Because they get offered millions of dollars for their land, millions of dollars for their shops that maybe are, five by five square feet because the Israeli government wants that lab. So they're very much very, they very much to see Americans. And like I said, particularly American Muslims coming. And so that's a part of it. And the only times we didn't go was during COVID. 2020. And then this past this, this year. Faith Gay: Yeah, I think that's such an important point, and I think it highlights the tension. I think there's a difference between being a tourist and coming to bear witness. Like I'll say I, I was a student at an Israeli university and it was important for me to see like the university itself was a bus station. It had Palestinian, it was crack, it was basically in East Jerusalem. The university itself was like a settlement and they just wouldn't acknowledge that it was in East Jerusalem. So it had buses from East Jerusalem and the West Bank coming like in and out and they were called the Arab buses. Because, and it made me realize, Arab, like Palestinians and Israelis were riding separate buses or that they were living in separate neighborhoods and also going to separate schools, and you had, quite frankly people preferred it that way. They were like, no, we want our own bus systems, and we want our own schools particularly Israelis. And yeah. It like shaped my perspective. And then at the same time I remember the school organized a trip to a kibbutz to give some of the international students, a taste of the kibbutz and give them like the experience of visiting one. And we paid like a 20 or something, some small like fee, and we went and visited this kibbutz. And all we knew about kibbutz were like, Oh, socialist living farmers. Living in peace and in community with each other and we get there and they talked about all that and then at one point we're walking and they pointed and pointed at this like big building and they were like, Oh, this is our factory where we make weapons for the idea and that helps sustain our income. And of course, no one from the school had told us, and the 20 we paid was going towards the kibbutz like they make their money also from tourism. But no one had told us we were paying money to people that helped create weapons for the IDF, right? That wasn't disclosed. And it was, for me, I think I had shown up there thinking I was just going to learn about the conflict and learn about people. And I also had to sit with, I have no idea how my money is being used. And I think there's, We there are like palestinian shopkeepers. There are like palestinian Business owners that need the business and they need the money They need folks coming to see what they're going through and not just for business purposes but to see what like apartheid looks like But it's also there's no way to avoid helping fund occupation and so it's also like how do you avoid that or how do you Go and bear witness while also trying direct directing your money in very specific ways and Yeah, I do want to talk about I'm sorry. Did you want to respond? Adeyinka Mendes: Yeah, I'd like to respond to that. When you mitigate supporting apartheid as much as you can the groups that I've taken in, since 2019 we're very intentional about only booking hotel reservations at Palestinian owned hotels, for example. The restaurants we go to, it takes a little more effort, but it's not difficult to support the Palestinian people that are there, Muslim and Christian, right? So there are ways to minimize how much you support the operation of apartheid, and I hope. And I do hope that the people go there because you have to see it for yourself and it will hopefully launch, if you're not already active, it will launch people into action. Naomi Washington-Leapheart: Yeah. I just want to chime in here on this point too. I think, I left Palestine that first time, keenly aware of my own compromised life. That I needed to be honest about. The way I rationalize these compromises, to Imam's point, there might not be a way to completely eliminate all of the contradictions, I rail on about American politics, even as I Navigate them and try to make life for my daughter in a way that but I think part of what allows this genocide, what allows these attitudes to continue to proliferate is an utter refusal and arrogance about the extent to which we are negotiating all kinds of contradictions. And at least if we can be honest and work on refusing the contradictions that we can refuse, mitigating the ones that we can't fully refute, you know, Palestine called me to a more honest living and for that, I will be forever grateful to the Palestinian folk who said, now you can't unsee, you, you can't unhear these stories. Thanks. And so go and tell yeah, I think this notion, I think a lot of people that I've spoken to, particularly over the past eight months, are frozen in this moment. Zero sum. If I speak out about Palestine, that means I got to speak out about X, Y, Z. Yeah, because what this illuminates is the other contradictions. And so I think a lot of folk are afraid of the domino effect of the whole house of cards falling. And, I think it's very true that, I'm going to butcher the quote, but the saying that the question of Palestine is the question, right? This is the political and moral issue of our generation because the The, what Palestine illuminates is a global kind of tendency toward racism, let's just call it of theft, of plunder. This is the human legacy. It really is. And so I just wanted to chime in to say that, yeah, I had to change. I had to change, not just around the issue of Palestine, but on so many different questions. I had to change my mind and change my practice, change my lifestyle, because of what Palestine illuminated and activated for me. Adeyinka Mendes: Yeah, and I thank you, Reverend Ali. I know we're spending time on this issue, but at this particular point, I think it's time spent. Just and I agree with you, the Palestinian issue is the defining issue of this generation. Just like Dr. Du Bois, W. B. Du Bois said the problem of the color line, was the defining problem of the 20th century. And they are connected, White Supremacy, which is really. A manifestation of this of what Dr Sherman Jackson calls White normalcy. The idea that White standards of beauty, White standards of humanity, of intelligence of morality are superior to nonWhite standards of beauty, intelligence political economic systems. And we can say as a civilization, no, we don't subscribe to that, but when we look at our school curricula, what systems, what history, what narrative, what perspectives are centered. And so the contradictions are glaring and what Palestine forces us to do is to really look at, I remember doing the Black Lives Matter movement when it had its second wave with the murder of George Floyd, the response. To "Black Lives Matter" was "all lives matter", right? And we can see we saw the media coverage when Ukraine was invaded. We saw how people, have Ukrainian flags and, on their profiles on Instagram and Facebook And those same people when Gaza, when the numbers, 3, 000 people murdered, 5, 000, 10, 000, many of those people weren't having, they're not putting Palestinian flags in their profile, people are getting doxxed and, fired from their jobs and lost scholarships and they didn't graduate. Very different response. Why? Why? Why? If all lives matter, and the other thing I wanted to just shine a little light on is when I went to Palestine, I saw that the White Supremacy was not only weaponized against Palestinian people, it was weaponized against Sephardim, Sephardic Jews, non Ashkenazi Jews as well. They had to prove their Jewishness, whether they were Moroccan Jews or Ethiopian Jews. And I spoke to some of the falashas who were there and the Ethiopia Jews and they told me, yeah, we're being treated like trash, like trash. And it's just interesting now because, 30 years later, I see them in the IDF, right? Ethiopian Jews serving in the Israeli Defense Force. So I just think that, yes, we, It's the elephant in the room, White Supremacy and whether it's in New York, or Mississippi, or California, or Palestine, or South Africa, or anywhere else, this is a common thread that's used to justify an imperialist project. Faith Gay: Thank you both. I, it is making me also reflect on as we were acknowledging some of us coming from these Black Christian spaces that are still are still Zionist, Christian Zionist spaces that are contributing to the occupation of Palestine. It's also making me think about you were acknowledging Imam Adyinka Arab Jews being complicit in the oppression of Palestinians of The UA, the United Arab Emirates helping fund genocide in Sudan right now and so like we have to acknowledge the contradictions even oppressed people can oppress other people, right? And we have to sit with, what is our actual responsibility? Or what are our values? And what do we feel conviction about to what we think other human beings deserve? Even if it costs us, even if it means we're not in power, even if it feels vulnerable. And actually, Amal, I was hoping I could ask you a bit about, because you mentioned doing, solidarity work with Indigenous people. And, something I reflect on a lot is as like African Americans, we didn't ask to be in this country, right? Brought here against our will. But, so much of our culture and history has been around trying to gain ownership of things, trying to get land, trying to, Get some stake in the American financial system. And of course, indigenous people are still in our country. They still are being oppressed and dealing, being occupied by the United States of America. And so I'm, I should like to close that question to both of you, right? What does it mean to stand in solidarity with indigenous people? What are our responsibilities or what values guide you to, to support that? And how do we not become oppressors, right? Even if we're here against our will, even if we've gone through historical trauma, which many Jewish people have, how do we not end up that waY? Naomi Washington-Leapheart: more and more, babies, the older I get, I don't know. I believe that healing is so central to resistance. What the movie, I think, beautifully and powerfully Declares is that yes, even trauma is not a justifiable reason to enact, decades of occupation and decades of apartheid and ultimately this genocide. That our bodies are keeping the score and as long as we are not on a full time basis seeking to transform the trauma. Uh, and I'm not the person who thinks you can pray everything away. I, I think that healing is the healing process is more substantive than that. I'm not knocking prayer. I'm just saying that so much of what the Christian church and I'll say this, so much of what the Christian church has taught is that, Jesus is the answer for all the questions you have. But. Actually there's a deeply there's a deep kind of bankruptcy around recovery from trauma. Recovery is what keeps coming to my mind, right? As a framework, like we are all, we all need to be in recovery from, imperialist. Ways of thinking, ways of being independent. We fly the flag with pride independence, but what has that done to our ability to be community and be interdependent? So I just think that many are searching for political solutions and we need to, have the best policy people around the table who can negotiate the thing. But without. Steps toward deeper healing that doesn't then project where we then don't project our trauma on to others, where we're not living in existential fear all of the time, where we feel like we have no community. I walked away from Palestine, ultimately enraged and also very sad, like in order for of people to behave this way, there has to be some deep, I'm sorry, are we cussing on this? I'm a cussing creature. I'm sorry. There's got to be some deep shit! There's, I, and political solutions will not get us all the way there. If we do not address the ways our bodies have been burdened by, taken on the burden of this residual trauma. So we need healers in our midst and not just, not people who just going to lob scripture at you or lob, but folks who really know how to get to the epigenetic, get to the get, help us get back into our bodies. When we encountered the children who were IDF soldiers, I wanted to just be like, You had to leave your body to do what you're doing right now. You can't be in your body and do this. And we need healers, and in our society, in the West, I think, we, we despise our healers. We mock and ridicule our healers. We don't take healing seriously. And I think that's playing out on the world political stage right now. Adeyinka Mendes: You can be an IDF soldier, an SS Nazi, or a, a police officer that's part of a police department that, that targets the one we just heard about in Memphis, the Goon Squad, or what were they called? Those going around targeting young Black men, and you can do that in your body if you've lost your soul. If the heart. Is dead. If a person is not walking conscious of their spiritual reality, and I think healing, is, and I agree with you, Reverend Naomi, I don't think we can pray away our problems. And I think a lot of times, prayer is used as that opiate, the Karl Marx Had mentioned, and actually he was not anti religion, that statement he made about religion being the opening of the masses, he wasn't really criticizing religion itself, he was being more prescriptive, he was being more descriptive of what happens In an industrial capitalist world where people don't have religion, right? That is not an escape from their problems, but it's helping them to face their problems. So how do we pray for healing? How do we use our prayers to get guidance from Spirit on what is an appropriate action to remedy and rectify the wrongs and the injustices that we see around us? In Palestine, and in our own backyards, in our own cities, whether we're in Europe, whether we're in North America, South America, Africa, Asia, there's a verse, a passage in the Qur'an which is, which for Muslims is a summary. And it's important, I think, that I reference this, because how I have learned about Islam is very different than the caricature. Of Muslims that you see in the mainstream media and mainstream academia. Muslims see the Qur'an as a summary of all the wisdom truths and wisdom traditions that have existed. Before and after it, and there's a passage in which God, the Creator, the Absolute Reality, there are many names for God, Olodumare and, Oloru and, the Bible says the Creator says, indeed, the Creator commands to justice and spiritual excellence and generosity with your relatives. And condemns immorality, condemns indecency, and oppression, and exhorts you that you take heed. This is in the 16th chapter of the Qur'an verse 90, if you want to look it up for yourself. The 16th chapter, verse 90. So there is a spiritual imperative within the Muslim tradition that most Palestinians are very much aware of. And if you've been watching the videos on Tik Tok and on social media, the, that grandfather was more, it was mourning his baby girl, his daughter, his granddaughter. What the resilience that we see the faith. That we see the surrender, the vulnerability that we see is nourished by this tradition. Prophet Muhammad, God bless his soul, has a saying, whoever among you sees a wrong, and this is to answer your question, Faith, about how do we be, how do we occupy time and space and solidarity with indigenous peoples here in Turtle Island, North America, right? Prophet Muhammad. It is reported to have said, whoever among you sees a wrong, an injustice, let them change it with their hands. Change it with your hands. You have to be in your body, as Reverend Ammon was saying, to do that, right? You have to have either been healed or be on the path of healing to do that. And then he said, if you're not able, if you're not able to change a wrong with your hands, then change it with your tongue. Change it with your words. And you can extend that to your pen, you're with communication. And then he said, and if you're not able to do that, to change a wrong to a right with your words, then he said, change it with your heart. Now we're not used to that, right? I think the civil rights activists in the 60s, the 50s and the 60s, they understood that, how do you change something with your spirit? How do you use the power of spirit and faith to change material circumstances? And so all of those are different avenues available to us, and the way I show up with Indigenous brothers and sisters is number one, to listen to them, to see them, to socialize with them, to hang out with them, to invite them to my home. Faith Gay: Thank you both so much. I know we're a little over time, so I'm gonna close this out a bit, but I do hope that folks feel like they can take on their own little corner, whether it is organizing your faith organization, whether it is it's organizing your own families. I think sometimes we forget we have to influence our own families and communities, our neighbors and trying to, spear them towards justice and wanting that for all people whether it's at your workplace, whatever it may be I do hope that folks take that to heart and know that you're not powerless. We can't believe that if we want things to change. And I, yeah, you're also welcome to reach out. I you should not feel like you, you can't ask these questions or that you can't reach out to people and ask what doing that in your sphere looks like. Promise that's available. I promise there are people who will help you. I want to thank everyone for joining us today. Thank you in particular to Imam Anainka and Reverend Naomi for making the time. And do you have any final remarks or things you wanna say? Naomi Washington-Leapheart: I'll just call one of my favorite, but I get, I've quoted more scripture on this call then I normally do. I'm just that tickles me. " We are afflicted in every way, but we are not crushed". We are perplexed, but we are not driven to despair and we are persecuted, but we are not forsaken. We are struck down. Palestinians are struck down, but not destroyed. Like we're still here. Palestine is still here and Palestine will be free. Amen. Adeyinka Mendes: In our lifetimes, in our lifetimes and My closing remarks are, first of all, thank you. Zaya, Maurizio, Faith, Lisa, this whole team at SAND for producing this for organizing this panel and then, of course, for producing this film that I believe will open hearts and minds and will send a ripple. Ripples around the world and will compel people to action. Thank you for Reverend Naomi for speaking so eloquently and powerfully and brilliantly to this issue, and I look forward to, getting to know you better and then following your work and learning from you and I want to say, and I just, I guess two things. I was speaking to two elected officials locally where I live myself and a group of Muslims were speaking to them about passing a resolution calling for a ceasefire. And one of the things that I noticed is that there was this assumption that the Palestinian Israeli conflict has been going on for thousands of years and, what can we do? These Arabs and Jews just fight each other. Like religious people always do, which is another lie, right? Most wars in human history have not been fought in, for religion. Usually it's, political, economic, at least using religion, right? To mask their agenda. This conflict is less than 150 years old. Jews, Christians, Muslims have been living in peace. For over a thousand years in different parts of the world, when you study the legacy of Muslim Spain, Andalus, before King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella and the Spanish Inquisition, when you study the Ottoman Empire, and when you look at Jewish communities in Iran and Iraq and and Egypt and Syria, where I studied, the reason why there is still Jew, Jewish populations in those places is because they were not massacred. And in Palestine, the same thing goes, there have been Jews and Muslims and Christians and droves living together in harmony for hundreds of years in Palestine. And so don't feel overwhelmed by history. By bad history. This is not a problem that is perennial. It can be solved if we each play our part. And there's a lot of work to do. We don't, if each and every one of us does a little bit, we can do this. Reverend Nomi said, you don't have to do everything. And so being in community is extremely important. Being strategic, being spiritual taking your faith with you, taking your spiritual practice. Into the struggle with you is what I would always advise. So thank you again for inviting me. And thank you. Please watch the movie. Please do host a screening. I plan to host a screening for my community in Houston, Texas. And yeah, just, spread, just, just spread the message of this movie. Thank you so much. Faith Gay: Absolutely. Thank you to Lisa and the SAND Team. Zaya and Maurizio, did you have any remarks you wanted to make? Zaya Benazzo: Insha'Allah. Thank you. You opened my heart. My heart is feeling that fire, Rev Nomi, that you are We all need to ignite. Yes. And let that lead us and to the right action. And both of you guys is and thank you faith for this beautiful heart opening conversation and true telling space you've created for us. Maurizio Benazzo: Yeah. This is spiritual work. This is not politics. We are not facing a political crisis. They make it political because they have a lot of money that they are sucking up out of. It's spiritual work and we have to get together all these people. We all claim to be spiritual on our way to yoga. We should think about this. It's ridiculous, this kind of, Oh that's not for me. You guys, you, both of you, you presented so clearly. And then, oh I can't stop praising the two of you. You just made the little in the corner of my mind. The three of you is the three of you. You like our powerhouse in the making? I can tell you that. But the, there is little corner in my mind where I keep my heroes. And you got a little spot there with the best of them. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Stay in touch. We are gonna be together. We'll Zaya Benazzo: fire together. Continue this. Maurizio Benazzo: Thank you on your family members Zaya Benazzo: stand and we have a long list of resources. Please check on our website at this very moment. We encourage you to support grassroot organizations in Gaza, Palestinian organization. We have a list, please choose and visit Palestine. Yes. whenever, however you can, please visit. It changes once you see it. And Maurizio Benazzo: the second best thing to visit Palestine is to watch a movie. I hate to say this, it can be at zero. It's not for the money. Do it for, watch it for free. We don't care. Send it to your friend because it's the second best thing. When you see, when you're there, as both of you said, what three of you said, when you're, it takes 10 minutes to realize that something is really wrong. You cannot accept this. So thank you. Zaya Benazzo: Deep gratitude for all of Maurizio Benazzo: you, and all of you our community. It's an honor and a joy to have you every day with us, or even if you come in and out. It's still an honor to have you today with us. We love you. Thank you. Naomi Washington-Leapheart: Thank you. Thank you all so much. Adeyinka Mendes: Every ma. Thank you, Imam. Thank you. Peace. Peace be with you all. Peace, love and blessings, Maurizio Benazzo: and thank you Faith for all in this space. Faith Gay: Thanks for inviting me.