#65 Emptiness & Grief

Podcast with

A live recording from a recent SAND Community Gathers (Sept. 2023) hosted by Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo (co-founders of SAND). Along with their guest, Francis Weller, they explore themes of emptiness, individualism, self-help, separation, religion, belonging, relationality, and Francis’s deep work with grief. 

Francis Weller, MFT, is a psychotherapist, writer and soul activist. He is a master of synthesizing diverse streams of thought from psychology, anthropology, mythology, alchemy, indigenous cultures and poetic traditions. Author of The Wild Edge of Sorrow: Rituals of Renewal and the Sacred Work of Grief; The Threshold Between Loss and Revelation, (with Rashani Réa) and In the Absence of the Ordinary: Essays in a Time of Uncertainty, he has introduced the healing work of ritual to thousands of people. He founded and directs WisdomBridge, an organization that offers educational programs that seek to integrate the wisdom from indigenous cultures with the insights and knowledge gathered from western poetic, psychological and spiritual traditions.


  • 0:00 – Introduction
  • 4:00 – Emptiness & Individualism
  • 9:00 – Religion & The Original Trauma
  • 13:43 – Self-help & Separateness
  • 18:22 – Belonging
  • 23:46 – Grief & Emptiness
  • 28:57 – Rationality vs. Relationship
  • 34:32 – Joy & Grief
  • 44:20 – Buddhism & Emptiness
  • 46:48 – Guided Meditation from Francis

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